I Was Against Freelancing...Now I Own A Business!

AMY: Welcome to the Peaceful Entrepreneur podcast, where together we are finding peace in the process of everyday business ownership by improving one step at a time, how we think and what we do. I'm your host, Amy Stout.

Have you ever had that moment where you're like, "I'm never gonna do fill in the blank." And then a couple months, years later, you find yourself doing it? Well that's exactly what happened to Joy, who is our guest on today's podcast.

Today Joy is going to share with you how she went from being completely anti-freelancing to owning her own business and running it as her full-time job. And spoiler alert, she loves it. So join me today to hear Joy's story. And maybe if you're on the fence, this will give you a little more confidence to take that jump.

Okay, we are here. I'm here with my friend Joy who I feel like I've been friends with for a very long time, but it's actually probably been a matter of months, if not weeks.

JOY: Yeah, I don't even know how long it's been at this point. It's fine.

AMY: Well, I'm so excited Joy to talk to you today about just your journey of becoming a freelancer and how it really wasn't what you thought was going to happen with your life. So thanks for being here and being willing to share. I think this is an important conversation.

JOY: Yeah, I'm excited to be here.

AMY: So yes. Okay, let's start with a little bit of a who you are. And as much as you want to share as well about your business, because you have an awesome business. And we're working on collaborating between our two businesses as well, which is very exciting for me.

JOY: Love it. I'm Joy. I'm the owner of Joy Warren Creative and I'm a small business brand designer and illustrator. So I'm from small town Indiana. I lived there my whole life and me and my husband moved to Raleigh, North Carolina in July.

So if you're an Enneagram person, I'm an Enneagram Four.

AMY: We love this.

JOY: We love this. And I like plants. They don't always stay alive, but I enjoy them. And I've gotten into reading this year, so I've been reading a lot of books, which you and I have talked about.

AMY: We have.

JOY: We have.

AMY: The second that Joy told me she read, I sent her a list of about 20 books. And I was like, here's my highlights. Read all of them. They're in my notes. Don't worry.

JOY: Amazing.

AMY: And also, you gave me a really good recommendation that I really enjoyed. So fun fact, you've kind of gotten me back into a thriller kick.

JOY: I love that.

AMY: Like, I was on a rom-com kick for a long time and then after I read the one that you recommended, I haven't wanted to go back to rom-com.

JOY: I love that for you.

AMY: I just keep finding more thrillers.

JOY: Yeah, I feel like I always struggled to like keep up with reading and I think that reading thrillers and like suspenseful books helps me actually read.

AMY: Definitely.

So, yeah. I'm about to be done with Nine Perfect Strangers, which got turned into a TV show. I've watched the first two episodes and I'm really sad because they took a lot of creative liberties. So like the casting's amazing, but the plot details are not super accurate.

And me being a one on the Enneagram, which is the perfectionist, yeah, that bothers me. (laughing)

But using a four might kind of like it. I don't know. How do you feel when things don't match?

JOY: I think if they don't match, but they do a good job and it's still like good at its core, then I like it. But it does bother me if they like take creative liberties and then it's terrible.

So I'm gonna have to give it a little more of a chance and watch more of it to see that. 'Cause I did get to that point with little fires everywhere they did change the things between that book and that TV show. But the show as a whole was really good. You just couldn't go in expecting it to be exactly.

JOY: Yes, I feel like that's usually the case. Nice little reading tangent.

AMY: OK, I love it. Tell us more about you.

JOY: Oh, that's all I had ready.

AMY: OK, that's right. You got through all of it. You're succinct.

Well, and Joy and I are working business wise. I'm working on opening up and I kind of am, it is open, but a podcast startup service, because after I started this podcast, I was like, oh, I want to help other people do this.

And then Joy kind of came to mind when I was trying to come up with someone to design podcast covers, because not only do you have the graphic design, but you also have the illustration background so that we can offer kind of a lot of options to people, basically based on what they need.

So I'm really excited about that. We're about to get started on our first project.

JOY: Yes, I'm so excited. Bring us your podcasts. We want to work on them.

AMY: Yes. Absolutely. I'm going to just jump right in to these questions. And let's just have you share your story because people, Joy was totally against freelancing. Like, like, you were not into the idea of it.

And that's different from me because I was like open to it. So that's why I kind of knew I'd be comfortable taking the jump. But that is not the case. And now it's your full time gig to be a freelancer.

So I want to hear about how you got to where you are now. So let's start with why you were against it in the first place.

JOY: Yeah. So multiple reasons. I think the first one being that in the main one that I didn't want to deal with the whole business side of design. I was like, yeah, I was like, I just want to make stuff and go about my day and not have to do with taxes or paying anyone or, you know, everything official that you have to do when you're on a business.

And so that was probably the main one, as well as just, I mean, when you're a freelancer, there is no steady income. It really just depends on the work that you're doing and the clients that you have. And so that was a little scary to me as someone who likes stability.

And I also just, I don't think I had an example of like what success looked like as a freelancer. And for me success at that point in my life was just like financial stability and being able to shut my laptop at 5pm every day.

And I didn't really have a whole lot of other things to look at. And so another thing that I feel like really deterred me from it was I feel like there's such a picture of like hustling. I feel like a lot of people have this like natural fire in their belly where they're just like all in going for it working morning till night.

And that's the only picture of entrepreneurship that I knew. And that's just not how I work. I'm just not a hustler. Like I work hard. I would definitely work hard, but I feel like something that's important to me is having boundaries between work and life. And I just didn't see how that would ever work if I wanted to run my own business. So that was definitely another reason why.

AMY: Yeah, that's big. It's interesting that you say you didn't really have anything to look to because I feel like maybe it's because you weren't just like scrolling TikTok for hours and hours, but I feel like I have the opposite problem of like I see too many people talking about their success, but not talking about how they got there and making it seem like I can just replicate what they do.

JOY: So I feel like I had a lot of examples, but not a lot of like peaceful examples and sustainable examples. Kind of like what you're saying. And I think another thing definitely is just the fear of failing and what other people are going to think if they see you try to run your own show and do it yourself.

I think that that's something that I've had to let go of for sure is wondering what people from high school and college and family, what people are going to think of what I'm doing and just my success doesn't look like other people's success.

So yeah. Have there been episodes?

Yeah. There've been episodes where we've talked about that concept, right?

AMY: I think so. Yeah. That's, that's really good.

Can we go on a little tangent there? Like, can you share about, 'cause this is something that has come up multiple times. It's come up even in recording for this second season too.

So I think it's a really kind of just big theme of being a peaceful entrepreneur is like coming to peace with what success looks like for you. So can you share like how that looks different for you and what success looks like? 'Cause I think it's important to have examples that are maybe a little bit different than what the mainstream hustle culture is telling us.

JOY: Yeah, so I think for me, I think the mainstream culture of hustling is very much future oriented and working so hard every day to get the future that you want. But I think for me, it's been coming to terms with the fact that I want to live presently and every day, and that the journey is good and that what I'm doing today matters.

And it's not about working so hard so that I can live peacefully when I'm 60, but it's more just slowing down and finding peace in today. So for me-

AMY: You just basically gave a commercial for my podcast. (both laughing)

JOY: I love it, I love it. So yeah, for me success looks like having good work-life balance, working when I'm productive and not working when I'm not, and when I have things going on, like I can just shut my laptop and be done at the end of the day. And so I think it's been a lot of reframing what business ownership looks like, but yeah.

AMY: Good for you. I have an idea that I've been thinking about that kind of came to mind too, when you were talking that I wanna see what you think when you were talking about the fear of failing, because I think about that sometimes. I think I don't struggle with that.

My natural is like, oh, this is gonna take off and I'm gonna do great and this is gonna like whatever. But then I like have some moments that I'm like, but what if it doesn't?

JOY: Yeah.

Like, but what if, like I have all these expectations, but like what if things fall through? But the counter to that that I've been working through in my head is what if it's all fueled by our determination? And if we have determination to develop our businesses, develop ourselves, learn more, make mistakes, keep going, like then we won't fail because we're determined to not fail. Does that, I don't know.

What do you think about that?

AMY: I like that. It's like a whole loop. I think that's good. I totally, I totally get all those reasons for not wanting to be a freelancer. And I'm sure that like a lot of people feel those things and think those things and stop right there and don't, and like that's their answer and they just don't move forward.

So what like got, what changed your mind? What got you over the mental hurdle of not wanting to deal with the business side of things and the fear and just like breaking against the examples that you had seen that you didn't like.

JOY: Yeah. It was a lot of things happening all at the same time for me. So we moved here in July and I had been interviewing with an agency here in Raleigh, which I thought But I had a job and we moved here and I did not have a job. So stressful. That was, yeah, that was a bummer. It was like a dream job. I was pumped. And so that was going on.

And so I was looking for other work at agencies and just other companies just trying to find something that would work for me. And they just all looked mind-numbing to me. I've had internships and experiences in the past where I've been bored and not working on things that I feel creatively challenged in.

And so I knew that that isn't a good fit for me and I'm not at my healthiest and my happiest when I'm doing work that bores me. So that was going on. And so I was just really discontent in the job search. And then while that was happening, I, I've always freelanced on the side.

I got into design in like high school. That was when I was learning the programs. So ever since high school, which my work in high school is not work that I'm proud of today.

AMY: Hey, you gotta start somewhere. Stepping stones.

JOY: Yes. Um, I had been doing freelance work on the side since I was like 16. And so that's something that had always been present in my life. And so around the time where I was looking for a job, a fellow designer passed the project over to me because she didn't have time for it. And so I did the project. It was really fun. I liked working from home and I charged the client and then he paid me double and he was like, "Hey, you do good work and you should be charging more because you're worth more." And yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. I've never heard a story like that.

AMY: That's so cool.

JOY: It was amazing. I think was also a kind of a click in my brain of reversing the whole starving artist narrative that were fed from a young age and just realizing that I can make money doing what I like to do and that's pretty cool.

Yeah so that was a big factor I think for sure now looking back. I don't think I realized at the time but now I'm like that guy thank you. That was that's huge I mean he helped you believe in yourself when you didn't?

And the other thing that I can't really explain except, hey, God, but I just, I just felt so drawn to freelancing, which didn't make any sense whatsoever, because all my life I'd been like, I will never run my own business. I won't freelance, like no way.

And then all of a sudden I was like, what if I did though? Like that could be kind of fun. (laughing) And so I just like felt this drawing toward it. And I just felt really just consent in the job search and all of these things mashed together.

Just kind of added up. And I remember I asked my husband, I was like, what would you think if I decided to freelance? And he was like, well, he's like, that's different, but I would support you in it.

AMY: Aww.

JOY: Yeah. So it was a combination of a lot of things.

AMY: That is a lot of things. It's cool that you had his support too. I had Luke's too, and I was like, "Hey, I just got this idea. It's kind of crazy. Are you okay if I go for it?" He was like, "Yeah."

JOY: Yeah, it makes a big difference to have people that believe in you. So that was definitely another thing. So Clayton, as well as like my family, everyone has been really supportive of it. So that's made a big difference as far as my confidence going into it and just feeling good.

AMY: Yeah. Okay. So now looking back on like the business side of things, like have you warmed to it or do you still not like to do it? Like where are you at with that now? I love it. It's, it's funny how that works out.

So, I mean, there are still things where I don't feel super confident and that I don't like, like taxes, but I don't think anyone in the whole world likes taxes. So I mean, there's still things that are like, Oh, I gotta do that again. But for the most part, I feel like it's been really cool to see how it's aligned with my personality and my skills in ways that I was not expecting at all. Like I love organizing things.

And so it's been really fun to be like, okay, I'm going to organize this today and do this, and then I'll do this. And I just feel so good about myself.

And I think that just as far as communication skills, it's been really growing and really cool to see myself growing confidence and then selling myself.

JOY: Yeah, that's a journey.

AMY: Yeah, it's been really good. So I love it.

JOY: It's been really weird how much I love it. I think too, like there's a piece of you enjoy the things you wouldn't normally enjoy because you're building something for yourself. And because it's more purposeful, it's more enjoyable.

AMY: Yes, I feel like the fact that I'm doing what I love, I just care about it and it's my baby. And so it does drive you to work harder and to, yeah.

But I also too love the concept that you brought up of there are things that you realized that you were good at only once you started doing them. in business. Because I experienced that in business too, of like, I didn't know exactly like the specific niche of who I wanted to work with and what I wanted to do until I got into it. And the same even with like meeting Luke, there are qualities about him.

Okay, I'm a one. So of course I had my little list of qualities I wanted in the guy. So not only did he check all of those, but he also checked additional ones that I didn't even know I needed, but God did.

And it's like not until I got into the relationship with him, did I realize that's what I needed. So do you have any examples of things that you enjoy that you didn't think you would, or you're good at?

JOY: I weirdly like balancing my finances. I don't know why. I just love plugging in there and being like, Yeah, I don't dread it. I don't love it, but I don't dread it. I'm like, okay, this is cool. Feels good to keep track of everything.

And I think another thing that I remember when I first started and I like started my business Instagram account, I hated posting and I hated promoting myself and I hated doing anything that felt like I was putting myself out there, but now it's just kind of fun because I don't really care if people think it's so I'm like, boom, post that.

AMY: I love that. I'm going to kind of throw you a curveball because I didn't tell you I was going to answer this question, but I want to hear a little bit about as you were redesigning your own branding and website going from like part time freelancers, Joy to full time, Joy were in creative.

Tell a little bit about like what that process was like reforming your brand into what people see now.

JOY: Yeah, I feel like when I first started, like I started my business account when I decided I was going to freelance full time. So that was in like September.

AMY: Oh, recent. That's so crazy.

JOY: I know. I feel like it's been a long time, but it literally has not. And so I had done my branding in college, we had a class where we did our own personal branding. And I loved it in college and it translated well for the things that it needed to at that point, but it was hard when I decided to move into doing this full-time because it just didn't feel like me anymore.

And I also was struggling of figuring out kind of what I wanted my business to look like. So if you go to the bottom of my page and just like scroll, you can kind of see the evolution of my style.

Yeah, I like started out kind of moody because I was like, I don't know who I am and I only like brown and that's just me because that's who I was in college. And then I morphed into super bright, really playful because I was like, that's what people like to see on Instagram is like bright colors, all this stuff.

And I just was not grounded in what I wanted, who I am and what I wanted my business to look like. And I just had like no vision for it. And so even when I started to rebrand, I had no idea what I wanted to be.

And so I went through like three or four different iterations where I came up with something and I was like, I am obsessed with this. This is the best thing I've ever made. And then I'm like, this is nothing like what I want to be like, what am I doing?

AMY: Did you feel like the angel and the little devil on your shoulder?

JOY: Yes, it was so frustrating. I just kept creating something and I would like it for like a week. And then I would be like, this is not it. Like, Joy, what are you doing? So anyway, I feel like my new brand, like what you see now, really developed when I actually I walked myself through my process, which I had never done before, of like answering all the brand strategy questions, which I don't know why I had never done that for myself.

They just never crossed my mind. And so a lot of it just came from where I want my business to go and how I want to present myself. And so that's kind of how I walked that process.

AMY: I love your branding, genuinely. I really love it. It's so, I don't know, it's like simple yet extremely creative.

JOY: Thank you.

AMY: And I love how it incorporates your initials, but it still looks like art.

JOY: I love it. I'm really happy with it.

So that means a lot. What do you think about like like should a brand be forever or should there be a certain frequency that you refresh? I think when you're smaller and you're figuring out who you are, it's going to happen a little bit more often.

But then once you really dig deep into who your business is and who you are, I think it becomes that it starts to have a lot more longevity. So I mean a good brand obviously you want to last for a long time. You know you don't want to have to rebrand every two years or something like that. Like that's expensive and a lot of work. Yeah. So it kind of just depends I think on where your business is at.

AMY: Were you and I talking about how it's smart not to invest in a professional one until a couple years in so you can figure yourself out?

JOY: I don't know if that was me.

AMY: Okay, it might not have been. Well, we didn't say that. It doesn't have to be two years, but wait a little bit. Don't invest in professional branding immediately when you start your business because you are gonna change your mind.

JOY: Yeah, I think once you're a year or so in, or once you're at a spot where you're, even if you're only a couple months in, but you're at a spot where you're like, I'm taking this to the next level and I'm going for it. I think that's a good time.

AMY: Yeah. I think so too. Cause I rebranded and renamed my business a year in and could have gotten professional branding done then, but I was paying for like professional photos and a professional website.

So I was like, let me just do that for now. And I'll, I'll get the branding like later whenever. And so then I did, I ended up doing the branding two years in, but the, it's funny, like the professional branding just brings together all the elements that were already there for me. So it's not a big change. It's just like a solidifying here's who we are. This is the polished elevated version done by a professional.

So yeah, it's just, it feels like a less big deal for me. It's not like this big gigantic reveal. It's just like, Hey, all right. here's the new version of who we are.

JOY: Yeah.

AMY: Who we will continue to be. Like I feel more of a finality right now.

JOY: Yeah.

AMY: But I also know I change from mine every other day. Other things can change. I feel like that's what I feel like, is the name and my like mission are very solid now. And I'm like, if I could just keep those, I can change the details as needed.

But name and mission need to stay.

JOY: Yes, for sure. That means you're solid in who you are, and that's good.

AMY: I do feel solid. Because I only wear my brand colors now.

JOY: Love that big picture.

AMY: Yes. OK. Let's come back to your journey a little bit. And do you have any anything else to share about like why you feel like it's a good fit for you now that you're into freelancing? I kind of asked like how has your perspective changed?

But I didn't really ask like do you feel like this is your fit? Because I personally feel like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I will I just I don't I don't want to say never but I really can't see myself going back to a traditional job. I really can't. So where are you at with that kind of thing.

JOY: Yeah, I feel like I, when I decided I was going to start it, I was like, yeah, I'm going to go in all in, but also we're going to see if I like it and then reevaluate kind of a thing. All in, but not all in. But not quite. Um, but mostly like 99% all in, but also realistic Joy, be realistic.

And so anyway, now that I've been doing it for, I mean, I don't know how many months now I'd have to do the math. Yeah it's not even been a year yet.

Yeah but I I think it is a good fit like I was thinking about that the other day and I love working for myself, I love running everything and just the internal work that that is and so I don't know if I see myself going to work for a firm at this point but also I can't predicts the future.

But I think I've loved the way that I can, this just fits with my priorities and my lifestyle. I think that as far as, at least in my industry and design, agencies are kind of notorious for burnout and working way over time.

And so something that I'm trying to be really intentional about is just living a little bit slower and just slowing down because it's healthier and happier for me. And so I don't know. It would be a big adjustment to go back to, or not go back, but to go into working for agency or another business and just working hard all day, every day. So for right now I see myself doing this for a long time.

AMY: I love that. And like your seasons and priorities will change throughout your life.

So you can either adjust your business to fit, or if that means you go back to a job in that season, You know, um, there's another, oh, my episode with Madalyn this season is about how to come to peace with not working 40 hours.

And since you're talking about like slower living, it seems like, I mean, this is pretty impressive that you're not that far into your business, but it seems like you've got some pretty good, like slow rhythms.

Do you want to share a little bit about what that looks like for you?

JOY: Yeah. So my husband is a teacher. So what that means is we wake up at the crack of dawn every morning. And so at first, well, I'm not going to lie and say that I like that, but I am my most productive in the morning. So when he leaves for the day, I just start work and it's usually like seven in the morning.

AMY: Good for you.

JOY: And yeah. And so I feel like I do my most productive work from like seven to 10 and then lunchtime gets a little, gets a little rocky. I really hit a bit of a slump.

AMY: I would too if I was waking up at 5am.

JOY: Yeah, yeah, it's a little exhausting.

AMY: But I feel like I found a really good rhythm of working from around 7 until maybe 3. Sometimes I work later if I have a lot of work or if I'm just really in a good rhythm and I'm really banging out some stuff. I'll work until like 5 or 5.30.

But I think something that's it's just important to me is being able to walk away from my computer and be done. It is. So. Have you structured your work in any certain way? Like I do this kind of work on Mondays and this kind of work on Tuesdays.

Yeah. So I, that's something that I want to lean into more, but I'm not quite structured yet. So the only thing that is really set and stone is that I'm available for calls normally on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And that's it.

But yeah, that's about where I'm at right now.

AMY: Very good. That's awesome. I mean, I think as business grows, the necessity for that becomes more so like where you're at, you don't need as much structure, but I'm going to have an episode about it. So in the future, I probably will. Alright, well, let's finish up. Would you share a little bit about like what you have Learned in the process of becoming a freelancer?

JOY: Yeah, I think it's been cool to see how it's grown me Professionally and personally so I mean I talked a little bit earlier about like professional skills just kind of Growing and increasing but it's been cool personally just my confidence I feel like has gone up.

I've never been like oh, I'm like so insecure But I mean that's something that I've struggled with sometimes, but I think having a career where sometimes I have to stick up for myself a little bit more.

AMY: Yes.

JOY: Yeah Yeah, I feel like I've just improved in my just communication skills and I think just having to growing the confidence that my job is just as valid as someone who has a steady income in a nine to five office. So yeah also, it's been nice to just have the freedom to like go for a walk in the middle of the day because I can.

AMY: Yes, I feel like my health is improving because I work from home.

JOY: So yeah, that's so good I I feel like I like my favorite thing about working independently or running my own business is the control of being able to do what I want when I want, but it's a double-edged sword because I've let myself get a little bit too free with where I give my time.

And I'm noticing that like as business is growing, I need to give it more focused attention. Um, and so I'm in a very reeling in stage and process right now. So it can be better, but there's a balance.

AMY: There's a balance.

JOY: There's a balance. It's like, it's really nice. Like when something comes up, you can really easily move things around, but I just need to be a little bit more protective of like thinking through stuff.

AMY: Yes.

JOY: You know, just like, yes, think about it a little bit.

AMY: So I also want to do a boundaries podcast, but I kind of think I need to break it down into a series because there's so much to cover. So that's coming.

I haven't quite figured out how to like break it down, but that's something we're definitely talking about.

JOY: Yes. People need that.

AMY: So yeah. Fosho. Well, this has been fantastic. I've really enjoyed your story. I've really enjoyed talking more about all these little concepts. I feel like you guys are getting a little like look into Joy and I’s Voxer's back and forth. Cause we just send, we just send voice messages back and forth. And it's just like this all the time.

JOY: Yep. That's what it sounds like all day. Yup.

AMY: So before we go, share with me. What is bringing you peace right now?

JOY: I have been reading before bed recently and even though I'm reading thrillers, which some people might not, that might not work for you, but it has really helped me sleep so much better.

I feel like everyone talks about not being on your phone right before bed and none of us listen, but it has really helped. I feel like I'm sleeping so much heavier.

AMY: That's awesome. I've noticed myself like I used to have to like take melatonin every night and I've started to try and not take it because I've been reading before bed too and I've been able to go to sleep just fine. It's magic. It really does change something. I love it.

Okay, well maybe we'll have an offshoot Abide book club and have a book club chat one day.

JOY: Yeah. That would be actually really fun. Let's do it.

AMY: Oh my gosh. I love it. Sweet. Well, thank you Joy.

I appreciate you jumping on sharing your story today and we'll continue the convo on Instagram because you are one of my best cheerleaders over on Instagram. Thank you so much. I love it.

JOY: Thanks for having me.

All right, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We look forward to connecting with you more, whether that's on Instagram, TikTok, or our email list. We'd love to hear what you thought of today's episode and if you have any additional tips to add. We will see you next week with more tips and tools to becoming a peaceful entrepreneur. Bye for now!