What Does the Bible Say About Marketing?

AMY: Welcome to the Peaceful Entrepreneur podcast. We're together, we're learning how to have peace in the process of everyday business ownership by improving one step at a time, how we think and what we do. I'm your host, Amy Stout.

Marketing is such a gigantic topic to cover when it comes to entrepreneurship. I mean, I cannot tell you how much I have learned and how much I feel like I still have to learn. And so I can use all the help I can get when it comes to marketing. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I certainly can. And I have good news for you because today I have my friend Sarah on who has created her own marketing framework. Yes, how amazing is that?

So she has created her own framework for how to approach, how to think about the steps that you need to take to have effective marketing. And beyond even that, for Christian business owners, this will be extra helpful and extra peaceful for you because she has built her whole framework on what the Bible says. She has based the entire thing on the Bible.

And for me, that just makes me feel immensely more peaceful going into using it because I'm like, okay, no, this is what the Lord has laid out. This is the design that he has laid out. Not that like there's a Bible verse that says, do this for marketing and you'll like succeed. You know what I mean?

But like she's pulling these concepts from biblical principles and she is literally sharing that entire framework with us today, you guys. Like I literally felt like she was revealing some of her secrets. Like it felt so, it was just so valuable. I could have been scribbling notes furiously.

So if you wanna get out your notebook, this would be a good episode to take notes on. And if you find yourself wanting more or wanting an additional resource afterwards, she does have a free download that kind of lays it out. And so that will be in the description if you want to download that as a partner with listening to the episode. So I can't wait for you to hear this. This really opened my mind and helped me think about marketing in a really straightforward and helpful way. So let's go ahead and dive into my conversation with Sarah.

Sarah, thank you for joining me today. I'm so excited to just hear your expertise on biblical marketing.

SARAH: Oh, thank you, Amy. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so glad we were able to sit down and have this conversation.

AMY: Yes, me too. I think I initially, maybe I found your Facebook group or maybe you found me, I don't know, but I think I found you through your Facebook group.

SARAH: Yeah, possibly. I don't, I mean, one of the Facebook groups, 'cause I feel like we're probably in a few of the same groups as well.

AMY: So yeah, Facebook groups are so good for that. Like you just like meet so many random people and then you see them in other groups and you're like, oh, I recognize you.

We were in this group and now we're in this group together. I love it. It's so fun. So immediately, of course, you know, saw the red hair and was like, we're soul sisters here. And then saw that you were about biblical marketing and like Christian, like operating your business on a biblical standpoint.

And like, that is exactly what I'm trying to do as well. So I'm just excited to hear like, just what you have developed because you have like come up with this whole strategy and way of thinking about biblical marketing, which I think is no valuable and I'm just excited to hear it. So tell me a little bit about your business, your background, just so everyone can know where you're coming from.

SARAH: Yeah, of course. So I am currently a marketing coach or business coach, whichever kind of title you prefer to use. I don't really like titles for Christian entrepreneurs. And really I have a program and really it's designed to help people give them like a foundation in their marketing and their business because so often we try and just like take off and do all the things and then we're like why is it not working?

And it's like okay let's come back to some principles. Let's establish these like basic foundational things that you need to have, you need to understand so that you can move forward successfully and you can grow and you can scale and you can do all the things and follow all the passions but you have to have this foundation first. And this idea came from of course the like the parable of the sand versus the rock like this whole, this story was what I was thinking about when I was coming up with the name for this program.

I was like, what should this program be called? I just didn't really know. I was like, okay, it's going to be like, you know, marketing basics is kind of where I was starting. And then God was like, no, it's, it's a firm foundation. That's what you're doing. And I was like, Oh, yes. And I think that what song is it?

There's a, there's a worship song I love listening to. I think it's called build my life. I can't quite remember.

But there, and there's a line in the bridge that's like, I am like, I will build my life upon your love or something, it's a firm foundation. I was like, that's it.

That's the name. It's a firm foundation. And so I just like, it's so fun when you can kind of see these patterns. You always feel it in the moment, but in hindsight, it's like, wow, yeah, I see, I totally see this. And I love it.

AMY: That's beautiful. I love that so much.

SARAH: It's so fun. Yeah.

AMY: So how long have you had this program?

SARAH: So the program launched in January of this year. I've previously, I, so I started out as a copywriter, that's my background by trade. And I previously was having a program that was much more storytelling oriented, which I still love and it's a huge part of my current program, but it was one of those things where I was running it and it was going well with the students that were in it and I was enjoying it.

But it also just felt like this just wasn't like the right time to be having this kind of offer out there. All the people that I was connecting with in my audience that were coming into my circles, I was having conversations with were like, I just like, I need to figure out how to like get clients off the ground. I love the sound of this, but I don't have any money coming in. I love to do the storytelling thing, but like I just can't sign the clients right now. I just don't have the income.

And it's like, well, let's get you that income then. Like, why don't we switch gears a little bit? Let's focus on helping you get this thing sorted first so that you can then follow the things, do the skills development that you want, outsource, if that's your desire in the future. Like all of these things come from you being able to bring some revenue into your business. So let's figure that piece out first. And then we can come back to these elements in more detail later.

AMY: I love that. That is so good.

SARAH: And so you mainly have your Facebook group, right? And then people can join your program from there. Yeah. And I also have my podcast. That's probably like, I have my Facebook group and my podcast are probably like the two places that I invest most of my time and energy into. So people will come through my podcast as well.

AMY: I love that. That's awesome.

Jump into your, your foundation, your firm foundation. I felt the same way about naming my business Abide because it was not that at first. And so for the first year it had a different name. And I just sat for months and months on like, what do I name this thing? And when it finally came to me, I was like, yup, that's it.

Like, you know, just that same sureness and cause it, cause of what it's rooted in, which is a by the Lord. So yeah.

SARAH: I love that.

AMY: Oh yes, so it's nice to feel like final about something. Like we're not changing our mind. Like we've got the decision, let's run with it. So I'm sure that's part of too what you teach. So go ahead and share with us.

SARAH: So, and just on that as well, like I think it's encouraging to remember that you don't have to have things perfect when you're starting out, right? Like getting it out there is better than spending ages sitting around trying to figure out what the name is. the name, the right name will come eventually. And it's okay if you change it a year later, it's fine.

You can do that. It's not the end of the world. Like get it out there, get it into the world. Because a lot of times like the way that you want to name things or the way that you communicate what you do comes from interacting with people, with talking to them about what you do, about explaining it. Because sometimes you're like, I know that there's a better name in there, but I just don't know what it is. And you have to have those conversations to kind of figure it out.

Like my podcast is the same way. Like it was originally called, It's almost embarrassing, but anyway, the first name, I just did not know what to call my podcast. I was having such a hard time naming it, and I was like, "Well, we'll just put something out there." So it was originally called Confident Communication for Entrepreneurs or something like that. And I was like, "Well, this is just a filler title. I don't really care right now."

And over time, I was like, "What is this podcast really helping people do? What is this about?" I was like, "Well, it's growing your Christian business. That's what it's about." I was like, "Okay, that's the title. There it is. It's unfolded after I don't remember when I changed that name, maybe like seven months ago now, six months ago, but it took like four or five months for me to figure out what should this thing be called? I don't know. And now it's like, okay, this is called grow your Christian business because that's what this podcast will help you do.

AMY: And so, yeah, the same thing with your business name, like it does, it takes an, it's an evolution, right? It doesn't always come straight away. And like, also you don't have to make it too complicated. Like I feel that way with both of our podcast names that it's like just very clear what they are and what you're doing. And I think I knew that I wanted the premise to be peaceful entrepreneurship, but I was trying to make it too complicated and think of other names.

And eventually, like you said, like after months of thinking on it, talking to other people, I'm like, no, it's just it's the peaceful entrepreneur. Like, that's all it is. It doesn't need to be anything more complicated. Simple is almost always going to be better and more effective than anything complicated because you also you have to like name things based on what people are going to look for.

And it's like, well, if someone's looking for peace, they're going to look for the word peace to pop up. So if you've got a podcast that's called the peaceful entrepreneur, they'll be like, Oh, that's interesting. That's what I'm looking for. I wonder what this is the same way with my podcast. Like nobody's looking for confident communication. They don't really care about that phrase. That's not a phrase anyone's looking up, right? But they're looking for how to grow their business. Maybe they'll put Christian business in there because you know, that's important to them. And there, there, there's the title. It's going to pop up for them.

Like it's one of the top things that pops up. if you type in Christian business into Spotify or Apple, it's on that top list of things now, just because of that SEO. It works for you, which is so cool. So it's like, that's what you want when you're naming things.

Anyway, we're getting into a very specific conversation about naming things. This is a very valuable conversation though. I think this is very helpful.

SARAH: Oh yeah, it's very important.

AMY: So the biblical marketing framework, yeah, let's come back to that because that's what we're here to chat about.

SARAH: So the idea of this framework, again, it was just another God idea. I didn't intend to create this, I was just kind of thinking, I guess, like, um, I knew that I wanted to take my business in a slightly different direction. I was pivoting from focusing just on the storytelling and I was like, well, what am I, what am I focusing on? How do I structure all of these things? How do I communicate it in a way that makes sense to people?

And then I think I over like a day, really, it just came about. It was like this framework. It's like, well, it's biblical marketing. We just follow these things.

And so really this it's a six step for a framework, I guess is the best way to describe it because It's not like a process. You don't, you can do them in order. You probably should, but it doesn't really matter.

They're more like different pillars of marketing, different principles, but all of them have been like, I've connected them back to things that Jesus did or characteristics of how he, how he was as a person, how he conducted himself and his ministry, because I was thinking it's like, okay, if we're doing business and we're going to be doing business in a Christian capacity, what does that look like? Well, it looks like modeling the things that we see in the Bible, because that's what we should be doing as people, right? If we're looking for instruction on how to be a good person, we go to the Bible and say, "Well, what do good people in the Bible do?" Well, this is what we should do, right? And we model ourselves on the way that Jesus behaved to the best of our capacity.

Obviously, we're not perfect, but we do our best, right? And so I was like, "Well, business should be the same thing." So what can we learn from business about the way that Jesus lived? Our business is a ministry. Jesus had a ministry here on earth, so there's going to be a lot of similarities. And so that's where then this framework came from. So a lot of these principles are not necessarily like unique principles, like other marketing people will tell you a lot of the same things. But the beauty of it is being able to see how it traces back to things in the Bible, which I find so valuable because it gives you a whole new depth and a perspective to look at things, to reflect on things, and to implement things that you would do in a a slightly different way than if you were just looking at it out with that biblical context.

AMY: So that's awesome. I mean, I look framework framework kind of goes along with foundation. It's like the same idea. Like you're you're building your business and this is a good place to start.

I even have an episode on this season about like how to start peacefully and how like starting if you go ahead and start with those habits now, it's going to serve you so much when you get down the road and the rubber actually meets the road and you need to have peace. You'll already have the right habits established. So this is like perfectly fit with that idea.

Changing things is often, it's almost always so much harder than just starting from a good place.

SARAH: You can change things, but I've been dealing with that same thing with my organization system recently. It's just been a mess. I have a new baby, so things have just gotten very sidetracked and I've been like, okay, now we need to get organized again. And it's the same thing. It's so hard to establish that system, but I know once it's here, once it's in place, and once I know it works, oh my goodness, it's going to be, I'm just going to be, it's going to be a breath of fresh air once it's actually in place.

So I can resonate a lot with that. So do you want to walk, should we walk through the different principles of this?

AMY: Yeah, bring me through it from beginning to end. Let's just go through.

SARAH: So the first principle or the first point is identity. And so this is really taking a look at who you are as a business owner. And obviously this is based on the idea that like Jesus was very, very confident in who he was. He didn't have those doubts. He didn't have any hesitations or reservations sharing that with people. Like he just showed up and is like, this is who I am.

You take it or you leave it, but I'm not changing like who I am and I'm not changing what I'm about to meet different people's needs. He's like, "This is who I am. This is what I'm here to share." We need to have that same kind of confidence in our own selves as business owners, and especially if we are solo printers, we don't have a big organization, we don't have a huge team to where our individual self is getting lost under a business brand.

We are our own brand and we are our own person through that brand. We need to have this confidence in ourselves. And I think the other thing in identity that I love to help my students realize is that you've been made uniquely. Like God has given you skills, He's given you talents, He's given you this unique calling for your business.

And all of these things are designed to work together, right? He's not going to give you a calling that you're not equipped for. Maybe part of the process is to train you up and to develop those skills, but you're going to have something about you that makes sense for the calling that you have, whether it's like an innate gift or something that you can grow in, right?

And so the things that you have, your passions, your interests, your preferences, and your skills are all going to be part of that calling. And so your business should be designed to work the way that you were made to work.

And so there's so many, and that's like this whole identity piece is just helping identify like, what are the things like, what are my skills and What are the things that I like to do? What are the things I don't like to do? What do I want to be doing as a business owner? How do I want to sound? How do I want people to interact with me and feel when I speak to them? All of these pieces so that you can create that brand that makes sense, that feels good, and doesn't bring you so much stress and fear when you're operating.

Because there's so many times where we try and do things because people are like, "Oh, you have to be on this platform. You have to do this. You have to do that." and we're like, "Well, okay, I guess I'll try it. I'll do the thing." But it feels awful. It feels awkward and it's like, "Ugh." And that's because that's just not the thing that you were made to thrive in. So you don't need to do that. You can do something else and that's okay.

AMY: Such good advice. I literally just wrote that down because that is awesome.

SARAH: It can feel so hard to feel like going against the grain in a way, right?

I just did this. Everyone loves Instagram and Instagram is a fantastic place to build a business if it's the place that you should build your business. And I was on Instagram forever trying to figure it out and muscle it through. And I actually kind of, I don't really like being on Instagram all that much. It always brings me so much stress. I spend all of my time like, did anyone view my stories? Did anyone respond to the stickers? Did anyone look at the reel yet? Did anyone share? It's like, it just brings up so much stuff that it's like, I don't need this weight in my life.

So I just ditched recently because to me that's not a place that at least right now that's not a place that I am meant to be building my business but I know I have business coach friends that you know make six figures a year plus on Instagram alone because they love it and they thrive on it and it's a platform that they were designed for so it's really important to be confident in that and to be okay saying this is for me this is not for me and that's okay.

AMY: Oh that is such such valuable advice and I wish that I had known it sooner.

SARAH: Me too. But it's, we're all, again, we're all evolving. It's all a journey of progress and it's never too late to stop and change things. Like if you've been going down a path and you don't like it, you can just say, nope, that's okay. I'm going to change course. And like, and I would, I wouldn't say to do that often or lightly, right? Because if you've been building something and it is working, then it's always best to try and stick and see things through. if you're really feeling that call from God saying, don't do this thing or like, this is not for you, it is okay.

You have permission to set things aside, to set them down and start new or start something different if that's really what feels like the right decision in the moment. AMY: Amen. Number three is...

SARAH: No, that was just number one. So we're still...

AMY: That was number one. That was all just number one. I thought we were... Okay, you started talking about calling.

SARAH: So I know I did a little bit. I know. So the next one is calling.

So all of that's just identity piece. Calling is the second one.

And so this is looking at it from a slightly different perspective. It's looking at the people you're called to serve. And so identity is all about you. Calling is all about your people. And so this can include your offer, the what you're actually doing with your business.

But calling is you have to understand who your people are and you have to know them and you have to be able to communicate and relate to them. And so I, when I was looking at this, you know, like I was thinking of the verse that I can't remember where it comes from now, I should have written it down. But like there's a verse somewhere that, you know, says Jesus came to, or I came to seek and serve the lost. And there's that idea of like, we're called to seek and to serve our people. And that's like, that's who Jesus came to, obviously.

We're not serving the whole world. We do not have a calling that vast. But we are called for a specific group of people. We have to get to know that person really well. And again, not be afraid to say, "I'm not here for everyone. I'm here for this person. This is my ideal client. This is my avatar. This is the person that God put on my heart to serve, and that's who I'm going to focus on." Yes, I could maybe serve these people over here. Yes, I could work with these people over here, but that's not my calling. That's not my gifting, that's someone else's gifting. And so this is about getting to know your audience, getting to know how to communicate with them so that they connect with you, that they understand what you do, that they understand that there's a need for being helped and served in that way because not everybody knows that they need help, right?

Sometimes people know, "This is the thing that I need. I need this help." And sometimes we're blind to it and we need to help people understand that as well. And so the second component calling is about your person that you're called to serve or that ministry. Well, the ministry is the next one, but we're getting into the all kind of, they blend into each other because they're all different.

Again, they're all very related components to each other. I'm also thinking too about the concept of a flywheel. Have you ever thought about it like that? Because they all go into each other, but they also all like motivate each other and like move each other forward. So it's more like this momentum than...

AMY: Yeah. Or maybe you could probably think about it in a lot of different ways, but like pillars as a framework or as like this flywheel that they all...

SARAH: Gears could be another way to visualize it because yeah, they do, they all do interconnect in different ways and build on each other. But yeah, so and I feel like like the order that I have them. And I do feel like you kind of do need to work on them in this order in a way because again, like if you don't know who you are, you're not going to be able to communicate yourself to your audience.

If you don't know who your audience is and don't understand them, you're going to have a hard time fulfilling the ministry, which is the third component here.

And so I like to visualize ministry as your content, like your offer will be part of your ministry, obviously, because that's what you're here to do as a business is to have offers to sell things. But a large part of ministry is just the service component. And that's why I like to visualize ministry as your content, whether that's your podcast or YouTube channel, your just your social media content, you know, wherever is it you are producing stuff for people to to consume.

Because there's going to be a lot of people that will benefit from your content that don't ever work with you. And that's actually kind of a cool thing in a way. I kind of like that because there's a means that you get to impact people far beyond the people that choose to pay with you and the people that do choose to pay and work with you, you get to really impact because you get to have that closeness and develop whatever of it, whether it's a coaching relationship or service, whatever it is that you're like working with, you really get to impact that person in a way that you obviously can't do in a free capacity.

But you get to have this dual impact in both ways. And so I think sometimes we, like, I think we get a bit funny with content sometimes because people, some people will say don't ever give anything away from for free and some people will say give everything away for free. And I think like your content should be service first. You should show up and serve people to the fullest of your capacity in that context of they're not my client.

Like there are things that are reserved for my clients whether that be closeness, your calls, the length of time, the depth, whatever it is, there's going to be a difference.

But I like to help my students figure out like how do they want to show up? Where do they want to show up? And this is coming back to that identity piece. Which platforms do you want to be on that makes sense? Like where feels good that you can show up in your fullest capacity and serve people well? Where does your audience want to be? Because you know, only like you know that and they know that, but they don't want to be everywhere either, right? And so the ministry component is figuring out all of these pieces so that you can show up and you can serve and you can find people that do want to step into your circle and pay you. because it's a very important part of business that we don't want to forget about. Yeah, you got to make money.

AMY: Exactly. Ministry, it's your output because it is your content, but these people who have service-based businesses, it is the actual product of your services too, right?

SARAH: Yeah. And the reason that I normally don't focus as much on the offer piece is mostly because the people that are coming into my circles usually already have that part figured out, they know what they want to be doing, they have their coaching program, or they already have that skill that they're a service provider. And for like the way that we're working together, it's just figuring out how to essentially grow that to the point where they're getting that consistent money.

But if you didn't know what you wanted to offer, then that would be something that you would focus on in this ministry component as well, because your offer, whether it's a product, or like we're saying a service or you're a coach, whatever that offer is in your business, this is where you would be building that part too because again, that is a huge part of your ministry as a business owner as well.

So number four is testimony. And so this is where we get into the storytelling piece. This is my favorite. So these first three are really just like the real foundations of establishing what your actual business is. And then four, five, and six or more, how do you share that with people? How do you grow that with people? How do you do the selling part of the business.

So testimony is all about sharing your story. And I think that's one of the things that we see so much throughout the Bible is people share their testimony. It's one of our biggest callings as Christians is to share our experiences, tell people about Jesus. And so our business is, you know, we got, well, first of all, we've got to tell people we have a business, right?

But specifically, I like to focus on how do you actually tell a story? Because our testimony, our story is like, that's what our testimony is, is a story, right? And so I like to talk about storytelling, whether you use that in content on like your website or sales pages, things like that. You can use storytelling to connect with people and to sell things.

And it's such a fun like way to interact with people and not everyone uses it. I think people get scared because they think that they need to be a writer. They think that it needs to be something that's very like rehearsed and practiced and obviously a little bit of practice never hurt anyone.

But you can tell stories in your business, whether you are like a fantastic writer or you have never written anything in your life because it's just about you sharing an experience and relating that in some way to a business lesson or something that you teach a benefit, a transformation, any of those things that are like your business sales concepts. You're just telling that through the lens of a story, whether it's "I went on a walk today" or whether it's "Well, when I was 10 years old, this really funny thing happened to me. Let me share it with you." It's a lot of fun and it's a great way to generate a lot of different ideas for your content, for your ministry piece, because it brings in this whole new dimension of different ways and things that you can share with people.

AMY: Yeah, I love that. I always talk about how on podcasts. Podcast marketing is so strong because people just get to actually hear your story from you in a long form way that they can connect with way more than they can in short form content. That is right in line with what you're saying.

I think it's so valuable and it's like a little trade secret of like, "Hey, if you want to try something new that definitely is going to work, that's a good thing to try."

SARAH: Yeah.

And what you said about the connection pieces, is one of the primary reasons that I encourage people to use storytelling because it does connect in a way that like six tips to do your website doesn't really connect with people anymore. And especially because a lot of people that say that those types of posts work are using that because 10 years ago when there were less digital entrepreneurs, they did work because you would be in a group and you might be one of a very small handful of people that did web design because what he was really using Facebook groups for marketing back then.

And so you could be one of a very few amount of people where if you made a post saying, here's some tips for designing your website, people would go, oh, wow, you're a web designer.

Like I want to work with you because I need one. Whereas these days, how many like everyone can do these things. The Facebook groups are so massive. Everybody is an entrepreneur online, which is really great, but it does mean that your strategy has to change a little bit because it works 10 years ago. Just don't work anymore. The landscape is different. And so people are looking for a real person, especially like in the last five years, the rise of like fake profiles of scams online. There have been so many times where like just the other day my, my, my mum sent me a link. She's like, Oh, do you need to buy anything from the site? They're having a huge sale. And I was looking at it. I was like, it was advertising like whatever it was, like Bed Bath and Beyond or something. Like the images all look Bed Bath and Beyond and you click on the link and it was like a really random company, like a web link that I've never heard of. I was like, well, this is not Bed Bath and Beyond, because this does not say Bed Bath and Beyond dot CA or dot com at the end of it. So people, it's very easy to fake and duplicate things.

So it's really difficult to trust that people online are actually who they say they are, that they're a legitimate business, that they have the skills and the competency to do things. And so that's where storytelling can really help combat that because it brings a very human element into your profile. Like it's, we're not authors, all of us, right? It's hard to make up stories that sound good, but you can tell a story that happened and have it sound good.

So if you're telling a story and you're talking about what happened to you when you went to the park the other week, very likely that means that you're a real person because it's not that easy to tell that story and make it up completely out of thin air without missing something, right? So it helps combat a lot of those trust issues that people are rightfully developing for online interactions. That is such a good point. That is such a good point.

And you think about like the content that you just don't see content anymore. That's like six tips for this or six tips for that. It's just like a B roll of like someone making their coffee and it has like a text over screen like that's going to like connect with someone.

And it is interesting seeing the trends and things change like that as well. And I mean, people will still do some of those informative post. Again, my philosophy is if someone wants to learn website tips, they're going to go to Google and search how to write a website or how to write my about page.

So if you want to do like lots of informational things, you're better having it in a blog or a YouTube video or somewhere, something where someone is actually going to look for that information. Whereas if you're on social media, people are like looking for a connection with a person on social media.

So social media is better designed for these sharing stories, sharing behind the scenes, sharing your vulnerabilities and your reflections, sharing your wins and celebrations, all of those things, like showing that you're the person behind all the information. And then if you want to provide that information, like a lot of us are educational people at heart. We have that passion and that gifting. Then have it in a blog format or a podcast.

I do a lot of my tips and information through my podcast because people can learn and take notes if they want to or learn on the go while they're driving or whatever. But if they come to my social media profiles, they're not necessarily going to find tips, except maybe on a rare occasion, but not often. I'm more just sharing my thoughts, my opinions, my perspectives on things, because that's what people are more interested in on those platforms.

AMY: That is so good.

I'm literally taking notes when you talk. This is so good. It's like stuff that it's like, yeah, now that you say that, that yes.

But just to actually define it like that and like have that at the forefront of your mind. Like that is so so good. And I think that alone will help people strategize for their marketing. Like just the idea of like, what do I put where? And like so that they're not spinning their wheels, doing the wrong kind of content on the right platform.

SARAH: Yeah, exactly. It makes a big difference.

And then so we're after tests where we hit. So the fifth principle is fellowship. So that's the next one. And so this is again focusing on community. And because again, if we look at, I love looking at like reading through those early like gospels and looking at how Jesus did things.

And so much of the time he's just having conversations with people. He's like out for dinner, out fishing, like having just like community with people, having conversations as he's going through towns. He's, you know, he's preaching and doing lots of other things. But so much of his ministry was just spent around like a dinner table with people.

And so there's this real strong idea that fellowship and community and these kinds of things are really important to our spiritual walk, which I think is so true. It's why we have churches.

We have churches so that we can obviously learn for people that are more knowledgeable about the Bible and things than we are, but also because it's so important to have that connection with other believers. And it's the same kind of idea in our business. Now, this is especially true in the coaching industry. It's important with service providers as well to be able to build that community in some ways.

But if you are a coach, if you have products, having a community where people can gather in groups, like in a Facebook group, for example, is a really, really strong way of building this fellowship component. It really just comes down to relationship building, and sometimes, especially in the more service industries, then sometimes those relationship buildings are better done one-on-one because that makes more sense for the type of work that you're doing, right?

As a copywriter, like a Facebook group for learning how to get like a copywriting service is not really like the best strategy for me, but you know, I would send messages to people. I would talk with them one on one. Sometimes I would do like free audits or sales consults or things like that. And so I was building relationships that way. And so that was kind of fellowship on a one on one capacity.

So fellowship doesn't always just mean have a Facebook group because again, coming back to those first pieces of like your identity and your calling, not everyone needs to have a Facebook group. Not everybody wants one. people would love to build relationships one-on-one via DMs, via emails, or whatever that looks like for you. And so, again, build a relationship, build fellowship with people in the way that works for your business, the person that you are, the kind of industry that you're in.

Again, it's all what makes sense to you and your audience, but there needs to be some type of relationship building because people don't buy from people that they don't know, they don't buy from people they don't trust. They're not going to buy from you if they don't like you, but normally that's like normally we can get people to like us if we have any sort of conversation, right? Because most people are likeable people, right?

So really it's just about the knowing and the trusting that are the two biggest hurdles to overcome. And that doesn't matter whether you're selling a product, whether you're selling coaching packages, or whether you're a service provider, you need to have people know and trust you before they're going to spend any money with you. And so that's where this relationship building component comes in.

AMY: Yeah, I love that.

SARAH: And then that goes right into the last thing. Like, but you need everything else first before you get to this last thing.

And so this last piece is called Invitation, and this is about selling and growing. It's called Invitation specifically because we're, again, in the Bible, Jesus invites people to know him, to spend time believing in him, all of these things.

And it's an invitation that is open for us to accept or reject. And I love that imagery because that's kind of how we should be putting offers out in there is, it's just, you know, growing our audiences as well, right?

Like I'm not going to come chase anyone down with a stick if they don't come follow my podcast or whatever after this episode, right?

There's an invitation. If you know, if you want to learn about biblical marketing, you can come listen to my podcast, you're going to learn more. And that's it. I leave the invitation on the table and someone listening may decide, that's amazing. I want to learn more. They're going to come listen.

Some people listening are like, "That sounds great. I don't really need it, though. Thank you, though." And they're going to move on with their lives, and that's awesome too, because if they don't need it, that's fine, right?

And it takes a lot of the pressure out of selling, like when we pose it in this way. It's like, "Hey, I have this amazing program. I'm going to teach you biblical marketing. Do you want to join?" And some people are like, "Yeah, I want to learn this. I need this help in my life. Let's do it." And they sign up, and some people are like, "That sounds great. I don't really need that right now, though. Thank you." And you go, "No worries, awesome, have a great day."

And so this is really the mindset that I like to have when it comes to growing my audience, to selling all of these things. And it's the mindset that I encourage everyone else to have because you don't want to put that pressure on yourself. People are allowed to make decisions and they are entitled to make decisions. And all you can do is just present information to them and let them do what they want with it.

And it takes a lot of pressure off. It does because you want them to sign up because they want to sign up. Like you want them to want to be there. And the second someone starts to feel pressure or like begging or desperation, they're going to run away. Yeah. Nobody wants that. I know. And it's one of those concepts that like you hear a lot in the new age where they talk about energy and it's, and a lot of people are very like, Oh, I'm not going to go near this and I don't want to talk about it.

But It is something that is observable. We can sense things from each other.

AMY: It's a thing.

SARAH: In the biblical context, it would be discernment. We have this ability to sense from people what's kind of going on. I don't know how to explain it, but you do. If you meet someone and they're kind of weird, you get the sense that like, "Oh, they're kind of weird. I don't really want to go near this person. I don't want to talk to this person."

And then on the other side, when you meet someone and and you know the church, you just get along and you just feel that kind of somehow that deeper connection with the person. Even though you can't really explain it, you just met each other, but it's like me and my husband met. We had a couple conversations, we shared a joke and we got married, right? We can't explain these things, we just had this connection.

AMY: Did it really happen that quickly?

SARAH: Not quite that quickly, but we met at a friend's wedding and so we shared a couple jokes together. We only really met each other over the course of a couple days.

And then we went our separate ways because we live in different countries, but decided we wanted to like date long distance after like spending like a couple hours together pretty much. It's like, and now we're married, which is great.

AMY: Amazing how God works that way too.

SARAH: But like we had that just like that unspoken connection and we decided to pursue it. And now here we are. So we do have that ability to discern and people can absolutely feel when you're pressuring them to do things, even if you don't outwardly pressure them, they can kind of sense where It's like, oh my goodness, I'm doing this thing.

And it's like, okay, chill out. I don't want to do this thing. So it's, it's a good practice to yourself to just try and not get into that like energy or whatever word you want to put it, not get into that place of being super desperate and pushy and just being relaxed about it saying, Hey, I'm doing this thing I'd love for you to join. And if not, that's okay.

And maybe they're not joining because there's some things that you need to tweak and refine and that's okay. You know, it doesn't always mean that everything is a bad thing. If they're not joining, sometimes it's just sometimes it's just not the right time or the right season for them.

Sometimes it is that they just don't understand and you need to change things. I had a student that wasn't getting people signing up for her offer. She changed the name and then people were like, Oh, I want this thing. This sounds amazing.

And she just, she just changed ever so slightly how she was describing it to people and then they wanted in. So sometimes it's really simple shifts that need to be made. And that's why getting some copywriting help from time to time is really helpful to just get that perspective of how can you shift things to help people connect with it better.

But that's really all it comes down to. Yeah, it is really all in how you present it. Like your offer can be amazing, but if you don't present it well and vice versa, your offer can be like super average. But if you present it really well, you'll sell way better than someone. An amazing offer and not amazing marketing.

There's companies out there that sell poop and they make a living selling poop because they market it really well because they market it well and you know, they market it as like practical jokes like send your friend a box of poop and it's like, is this really, this is really a thing.

I looked into this when I was writing my like welcome sequence for my email marketing and I talk about it in there. It's like, you can actually sell poop and make a living. So your offer is probably not that bad.

AMY: I love that. That's great.

Yeah, it's so true. I mean, so I feel like you really just kind of like, you share a lot of value. Like what you said about like people say, share everything, share nothing. Like you just shared a lot with us, but I think that like the implementation of it is a lot more complex than just listening to one podcast episode. So share a little bit.

And I literally like could go back and take notes on every single point that you just said. And people listening might be doing that. But if they do want that next step, what do you offer as like the next step beyond just knowing this framework? Like how do you help somebody put this into practice?

SARAH: Yeah, so I have my program, which we talked about at the beginning called Affirm Foundation. And it's really, it's a 12 month coaching program that really just helps you walk through these different steps through like we have weekly coaching and a Facebook group for support.

And a lot of where I come in is like, you can hear these steps and you can take them and run away with them and, you know, put them into practice. But sometimes it's tricky to know exactly, well, how does this concept apply to my business?

Well, my business has this scenario and I don't really understand how to, you know, do this one particular thing. And so that's where the coaching program comes in. It's helping you implement this framework into like your specific business with your circumstances.

I also give like copywriting support in there because that's my background. So I'm in there helping you write your content, write your website, your sales page, whatever things that you're working on in your business, I'm there to help you do that as well. And so it's really like an implementation coaching program. It's helping you figure out how to apply all of this stuff to your business so that it is growing and that it is thriving and you get to feel like, yeah, this is working because it can work.

And it sometimes just takes that like one little nudge in the right direction, that one little tweak to break through that hurdle that you're stuck at. So that's really the focus of this program.

AMY: I love that. That is so helpful. I'm going to have everything below. So website, Instagram, Facebook group, podcasts, like everybody will be able to access all of the above. So if they want to get additional support, which I am right there with them. This is they have all the access. So this has been awesome.

Thank you for taking the time to share. Thank you for being open to like, be willing to share your framework with the world.

SARAH: This is why I love to talk about it. It's so fun. I love being able to talk about it and share it because it's it's it's simple things when you come when it comes down to it, but placed it like presented in a different way. And it seems to connect with people so much better than just presenting the information any other way, which is a really cool discovery.

AMY: Right. It's always fun to discover those things. And to like your personality, like people get to see if they click with your personality because I just find myself like smiling the whole time we're talking because you're just like a sunshine, you know, like you're just happy and optimistic.

And I love just hearing everything that you have to say. So I think that like people listening or will maybe feel that too, you know, and that's like another great way to connect.

Because people will tell me when they listen to my like, your voice is so peaceful. And I'm like, well, awesome, because that's exactly what I'm going for. But I didn't know that. So thanks. Like, I'm glad that that's coming across. So yeah, same for you.

Like, you know, the positivity, the mythical mindset, the encouragement, because as a coach, you need to be an encourager, right?

People who might be kind of frustrated or, you know, like you said, hitting up against a roadblock. So you're a great. I know you're a great support to your students.

SARAH: Well, yeah, it's a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun in there.

AMY: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I cannot wait to continue the conversation on your podcast, on Instagram. But before we finish up today, this is a question I ask everybody. And you can share business-wise, personal, whatever comes to your mind, but what is bringing you peace right now?

SARAH: So I have been, I go on a walk almost every single evening with my son because we need to get out of the house and get our fresh air. And so at like 4pm pretty much every day I take him on a walk, we go to the park, and I've been listening to a sermon series on the armour of God recently which has just been so much fun.

And it's like been such a nice way to reconnect with. It's by my old church from before I moved and it's so fun to stay connected to that church because I really liked it. And so that's been bringing me so much peace.

Just going for a walk through the sunshine with my little boy, loving the swings because because he's nine months old and it's the only thing in the park he can play on is the swings. And he loves it so much. And it's like my favorite part of my day. I love that. There is a lot to be said about getting outside.

AMY: Oh, yeah. Fresh air, moving your body, sunlight. I've been trying to implement that as a like in the morning to like start things off on the right foot.

SARAH: Yeah, it really does make a huge difference.

AMY: Oh, absolutely.

Well, thank you, Sarah. This has been amazing and I, everyone go listen to her podcast. I'm, I'm extending the invitation again. Go listen to her podcast. Join her Facebook group.

SARAH: We're there.

AMY: You can join your favorite two red heads on any platform that you desire, except not Sarah's Instagram because she's not there anymore. But pretty much any, anywhere else.

SARAH: Awesome.

AMY: Well, thank you everyone for listening and we will see you all next week.

Thank you so much for joining us for today's episode. Don't forget to connect with us on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. And we would love it if you would leave a review wherever you're listening. We'll see you next week for more tips for how to become a peaceful entrepreneur.