How to: Have Peace With Not Working 40 Hour Weeks

AMY: Welcome to the Peaceful Entrepreneur podcast, where together we are finding peace in the process of everyday business ownership by improving one step at a time, how we think and what we do. I'm your host, Amy Stout.

Raise your hand if you've ever felt guilty for not working a full 40 hours a week as an entrepreneur. I have my hand raised high because I struggled with this big time for probably a solid year and a half of my business.

There were so many internal and societal standards that were dictating how I felt towards how I was spending my time. And I've recently started debunking them and working through them and coming to peace with functioning how I function best, becoming confident in how I need to structure my day and my week so that I do my best work. I want you to feel that freedom too.

So join us today and let's work together to get rid of every single bit of guilt and replace it with peace.

All right, I am here with Madalyn. (laughs)

And this is so fun, because the only other person I've done an in-person recording with so far is Luke. So it's fun to have an in-person moment.

MADALYN: I'm very honored, so it's very cool to see in-person and get that more genuine connection, conversation going, I think.

AMY: Definitely. You can have a natural conversation on Zoom, obviously, I have, but it is different. It is different. I told, I told Madeline, let's just pretend we're having a conversation. There just happened to be mics in front of our faces, but we'll just pretend it's just us hanging out.

Okay. So let's start from the beginning. The beginning. We met in 2015. I think it was.

MADALYN: Yeah. I was trying to remember this morning, but I think it was like 2015, maybe 2016, 'cause I moved to Greensboro.

AMY: I was gonna say you just moved here. We had a mutual friend who introduced us. And what point were you at with your photography business at that point? Had it just started?

MADALYN: So I started my photography business in 2014. And then in 2015, I think it was just a year old. So it was still coming and growing and figuring out what it was.

AMY: Yeah. You decided to offer us a free couple session.

MADALYN: Yeah, I think that’s right. Like building my portfolio here in Greensboro and because of our mutual connections, I was like, hey, any chance y'all wanna do some photos? And you guys were all for it and at that time you were into some music and you were like, this could be like our album cover. (laughing)

And so I was like, okay, whatever, sure, bring your guitar, we'll do whatever.

AMY: That's so true.

MADALYN: Yes, looking back, I was like, young Amy, young Luke, young Madalyn.

AMY: If we were to use that album cover now, people would be like, who are those people?

MADALYN: I mean, you look the same, but it's very much aged.

AMY: Yeah.

MADALYN: In a good way, the best way possible.

AMY: Yeah, we both look, especially Luke looks a lot more different, a lot more different. Wow, good English, Amy. But it's fun to look back on those pictures. They were awesome. I still remember that shoot very vividly.

MADALYN: Yeah. I mean, that was the beginning of the rest. The rest is history. - It's current day history, you know? Yeah, I think that's kind of, 'cause at the time, yeah, it was just like a couple session. There was no like other title to it just for fun.

AMY: Nothing attached to it. I was like, sure, like cool. Maybe when we get married, we can use Madalyn, but we didn't even know when we were getting married. I think we were juniors then.

And I knew we wanted to get married, but we didn't really know the timeline of what it would look like, but it happened to work out.

MADALYN: Wow. (laughs)

AMY: I guess it was probably around a year, year and a half, probably a year and a half after we did that initial shoot. We got engaged and that was also right when we were graduating college. So we decided to do an engagement/graduation shoot.

MADALYN: On campus and off campus.

AMY: Thank you for doing that. and allowing it to be efficient all in one.

MADALYN: It played a really big significance in everything. So as far as like doing them together, 'cause obviously you were with each other through school and it was important.

AMY: It was special. It's kind of cheesy. We like went and took pictures where we had our first kiss and like, which was on campus and then like at the campus job that we shared together, which was funny.

MADALYN: Oh my gosh.

AMY: I look back at those and I'm like, wow, those are really, really cheesy, but it's fine. One day we'll look back and be like, oh, that's sweet.

MADALYN: Oh yeah, oh that's sweet, “there's mom and dad.”

AMY: Yes, oh my gosh. And then that was part of the greater wedding package. So we decided, I don't even think there was a question in my mind, I was like, "No, Madalyn’s our photographer."

MADALYN: Well, yeah, it was very sweet and it just kind of formed, yeah. I think that just, yeah, it was really fun to be along with you guys for the whole season, like the beginning and not the end 'cause we're still in it.

AMY: We're still here. we're not going anywhere.

MADALYN: But yeah, just to see not only myself grow and like my style and like photography, but also to see y'alls relationship, you know, grow and I mean, look where you are now. So it's like now you're running a business together and then it's like you were just going to school together.

AMY: Yeah, exactly. So I guess it was two years ish, year and a half after our wedding was when I started my business, but I didn't have you do a, wait, I didn't have you do a photo shoot until a year into my business.

MADALYN: Yeah, yeah.

AMY: This has spanned— I mean, we started in 2015. First shoot was probably in 2016. Second shoot was in 2019, second and third shoot, so we're in 2019. And then you somewhere between 2019 and 2021 shifted in your business. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?

MADALYN: Sure, we can touch on that. So yeah, 2014 to 2019 is when I was a wedding and lifestyle photographer. And right before the pandemic happened actually, which is kind of wild, it went so well together, but I decided to step away from focusing on weddings and really pursue brand photography because I did some head shots for another friend in the wedding world.

And I really enjoyed that side of creativity and everything is so different than the weddings and photographing couples, nothing wrong with it, but it just was like at a point of my life where I was like, okay, I think I need more of a challenge. I need something different, more creative. And so 2019 is when I started the pivot to being brand photography focused. And then 2020, I think around August is when I officially like changed.

AMY: Made the switch.

MADALYN: Bridge, yeah, made the switch.

AMY: Okay, and then I hired you February, 2021. So it was pretty quickly after you made that switch, but the timing worked out perfectly, but basically my business was a year old. I decided like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm making this a legitimate thing. I'm pursuing it full time. Like I need some photography and mainly for a website, but also for social media. So we had a really fun time with that shoot.

MADALYN: Yeah, and I think it's like how a lot of business owners should honestly take that as like not doing a brand photo shoot in the first month or two that you're starting because you're still learning and figuring out what it is you're doing and finding your niche, like finding what you want to work with.

And I mean, honestly I'm still looking at that sometimes it's like that's a reoccurring thing is finding the niche. But that to say, I think waiting a year into a business before you do any kind of photos is really helpful because then you know more about you and more about your personal side of the brand and then like how you serve people and how they can connect with you most. So that's a really good point.

AMY: Yeah. I changed almost everything about my business in the first year. So I am glad that I waited and that's great advice for somebody who is starting out because me being the kind of like go get her brain and like do everything all at once right at the beginning and glad I didn't. And so that's great advice. And yeah, I literally, I changed the whole name of the business.

MADALYN: In a year.

AMY: In the first year. Okay, so then a year after that, me and my little brain with all my ideas got the idea for this podcast. And I don't think I've shared this story. I have to share this story. I don't even know what she's, I mean, I probably know what she's talking about, but I honestly don't know if I know what she's talking about.

Well, I kind of accidentally made the podcast logo. Like I was really just trying to design a podcast cover and I peaceful and entrepreneur are both long words. So they look really weird straight across. So I was like, what if I curve them? And that's how I made the little circular logo. And then I played with like, what do I put in the middle? like what's a symbol of peace.

And then I started, I think I was just searching like peaceful images and got that little face. And I was like, this is perfect. Because like the peace sign fingers didn't really work. And like a dove, I don't know. Like, and then like the circle with the peace, like the hippie peace sign.

MADALYN: Oh my gosh, middle school me resonated.

AMY: Yeah, none of those resonated. And so I, yeah, I stumbled upon that face. And I was like, this is perfect. and it turned into a perfect little logo, but it didn't really look spectacular by itself as a podcast cover.

MADALYN: Sure.

AMY: So then I started playing around with how could I incorporate it into the podcast cover or what could I do? And I was trying to use pictures of myself from our original shoots on the podcast cover 'cause I wanted a picture of me, I like it. That looks professional.

MADALYN: Yeah, for sure.

AMY: And I was showing it to a couple of people to get their feedback 'cause nothing was really like hitting, like I couldn't find the right cover. And Beth, who is my very first podcast guest ever, definitely wanna go listen to those episodes. But she just said to me, she was like, "I just wish that that logo could be like on a shirt that you're wearing or something." And I was like, "I bet I could make that happen." (both laughing)

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: Oh, I said, 'cause that was a brilliant idea. And then it kind of allowed, I was like, really my dream podcast cover is me with just a blank backdrop and the words on top. Like I'd seen a couple inspiration like that and I loved that idea, but I wasn't dependent on that being like the first version of the cover.

But basically when Beth said that, I was like, well, I bet I know someone who has a cricket who could just print the logo on a shirt. And I bet Madalyn could do a shoot for me. And literally just made that happen within a couple of weeks. I think I reached out to you and pitched the idea and you were like, yeah, absolutely, let's do it.

And we also, we decided to do a trade and I did my business brain dump service for you and you did the photo shoot for me. So that was fun.

MADALYN: Yeah, it was very fun. It's still fun to see it come to fruition.

AMY: We have to talk about everything you're doing too. Oh my gosh, there's so much. And we haven't even started talking about our topic. But anyways, that happened, that all, the whole plan went to plan. And that's the podcast cover that you see now.

MADALYN: Here we are.

AMY: And all the photos that you see on my social media of the cute little peaceful entrepreneur shirt is all Madalyn. So that's our most recent shoot. I'm sure it won't be our last.

MADALYN: I hope not. Whether it's another venture or whatever, but I think, yeah.

AMY: Well, Luke and I don't have any photos together for the business yet, which I know he'll be absolutely thrilled to hear that (laughing)

MADALYN: Like I agree. The wheels are turning now. The wheels are turning.

AMY: I should have just had you bring your camera today. (laughing) No, I'm just kidding. Anyways, so yeah, we've had quite a story and I've gotten to be more part of your business recently in the last couple months 'cause we did that business brain dump and we kind of talked about your, the ways you want to pivot and grow your brand.

So I've kind of totally derailed any sort of intro that you might have for yourself, but what have we not covered that you would like to share about yourself, about your brand, about what you're working on?

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: Give it to me.

MADALYN: So yes, by now you probably know, my name is Madalyn and I own Madalyn Yates Creative, which is a creative business that serves women small business owners and helping them come up with brand photography and more to help bring heart and soul into their brands.

Most recently, I've finished my own personal project, passion project called "Portraits of Her," which is a coffee table book in the moment. It could be more down the road, but, and it brings, just shines a light on women in our community here and sharing their stories and getting to see their authentic self through black and white portraits.

So between focusing on the passion project, portraits of her, and running my own business, Madalyn Yates Creative, I stay busy. I love it, I love to be on the go. And I'm really just, yeah, excited to be here and see where this conversation takes us.

AMY: I love that. And I got to be part of Portraits of Her and it was such a blessing and such a gift. and I just received my book like two days ago. And it has just been so wonderful to look through, read everybody's different stories. It's just such a beautiful project.

MADALYN: Well, thank you. I feel like a lot of people have asked me, they're like, "How do you feel now that it's over with?" And I'm like, "Well, it's not over." I mean, yes, the building of the book is over and like putting it out in the world is over, but, and I truthfully didn't have any like hard emotions when I saw the book, which is weird, because you would think that I would see it and I'd be crying or whatever it might be, but I was like, okay, I've read these stories over and over again, I've seen these pictures a lot.

But then seeing other people interact with it is where it's been kind of emotional just to see how other people are reflecting and reacting to the stories and the pictures. And so that's, I think, my next step in it is just seeing how it affects the people that are in it, but also just every day people that I interact with.

AMY: Wow, that is so interesting that you bring that up 'cause I was literally having a conversation with someone this morning about how I was feeling about putting out the podcast. 'Cause I was like, I record it so far in advance of releasing it that it does kind of like, you don't feel the same excitement that you do the day you recorded, the day you release.

But it comes in, the emotion comes in when people respond. And I'm like, oh, this helped me so much. I was having a hard day and this was so encouraging or whatever. Just to affirm that that's totally normal, she was sharing that from an artist perspective too. Or, and she's a photographer, but she was saying that an artist friend was saying, you're pouring over it so many times, but by the time you put it out, it's not special to you anymore.

MADALYN: Which I think is just another, it's like a testament to business. Ownership too, entrepreneurship is like, there's gonna be times in your business where it's like, go, go, go, super exciting, super exciting. And then it's gonna be like, okay, like, yeah, I run a business. Yeah, like whatever.

And then so like, it just kind of makes sense that, that's how I'm feeling. And it's not anything because I don't, I'm not proud of it. I am definitely proud of it, but it's just seeing other people experience it is what's really bringing me joy right now.

AMY: Yes, that is so special. I love it. And I can't wait to see what else you do with it. And it was so fun to be part of the brainstorm process with you. 'Cause when we did our brainstorm, you were just like, this was just concepts in your head.

MADALYN: Floating.

AMY: Yeah.

MADALYN: Floating in the air in my head.

AMY: And we turned it into a plan. And you did it. You did it. That's part of the consulting is like, I can help you come up with it, but like, I'm not really there to make you do anything.

MADALYN: You still gotta do it.

AMY: So you did it and you did it fast too.

MADALYN: I mean, it was about two months turnaround between when we talked about it when it came out. Which is, I mean, yeah, I think it's fast and it just flowed really well. It never felt like it was too fast. Like I felt like it matured the way it was supposed to grow. And like people were, you know, I didn't want people to spend too much time on their stories that they submitted.

So like giving them a deadline, but also like keeping myself in track of that. So yeah, I don't know. It came together really great and I'm excited to see where it goes.

AMY: Yes, I love that. Okay. So let's jump into what we're talking about today. 17 minutes in and no, this is good because it's good for people to know where we're coming from. Um, so today we are talking about coming to peace with not necessarily always working 40 hours a week in your business.

And this is something that Madalyn and I both have experienced and I still struggle a little bit with it of just like the guilt, not as much. But when I first transitioned to full-time business ownership, I just had this pressure on myself. I'm like, I still have to work eight hours a day. Like someone's watching over me, but really like nobody.

MADALYN: Yeah, nobody is nobody.

AMY: So like just an adjustment of like getting away from that and just feeling guilt. Um, there's just a lot wrapped up in that. But the reality of the situation is most entrepreneurs are not going to be working right 40 hours a week and that's okay.

MADALYN: Yeah, it's totally okay. And I think the guilt comes from other people like in your life that you know, like even your best friends or your family members that are working in nine to five. And they're like, Are you crazy for like only working four hours on your business today?

Like no, because like that's just, yeah, there's no reason to feel guilt because of what other people are doing because you don't know what their day really looks like sometimes like their nine to five could not really be, you know, it's just all a person's perspective on nine to five. And so, don't let in.

AMY: It is. So we're here to talk today about why it's okay. And why it's okay to not feel guilty about it.

MADALYN: Exactly.

AMY: And it's a journey. I mean, I'm still working on it, but I've definitely come really far.

MADALYN: Yeah, oh, for sure.

AMY: Okay, so let's start with that, because what you just said of, you don't know what their day looks like, and they don't know what your day looks like, It's like you don't fully understand each other. And so I kind of want to touch on the mental load that it takes for us as entrepreneurs and how we allocate our energy and our brain power and how that's very different than nine to five.

And I'm actually gonna have a whole conversation with Katie about this that we're gonna get deeper into, but I do think let's touch on it for a little bit. So yeah, let's touch on it for a little bit because like in a nine to five, people are not head down working for eight straight hours. There's breaks, there's meetings, there's conversations, there's so many...

MADALYN: There's driving, they might have to go somewhere.

AMY: Yeah.

MADALYN: So like commuting is part of your job, but it's not like you're heads down working, you're working to get to somewhere next. But yeah, there's so many aspects of a corporate nine to five that we don't necessarily know. And that's why it's kind of, it's really cool to see someone's like day-to-day process.

Like when someone does a day in the life, whether you're an entrepreneur or you work in corporate world, it's kind of nice to see, 'cause then you're like, oh, they don't. You know, like you said, they don't have their head down from nine to 10.

AMY: Right, yeah. And even if you're working retail or food service, like you might be working straight amount of hours, but your brain isn't on the same way that it would be if you're like brainstorming how to build a business. So there's like different time allotments and there's different mental allotments. So I think that's the big difference with working a retail or corporate or food service job and being an entrepreneur is like, we just use our brain in a different way.

So share from your personal experience, like how that's been, 'cause I know you also work in a retail situation. So how do you compare like how you use your brain there and how you use your brain on your business and how that affects how much time you're spending?

MADALYN: Yeah, okay, I don't know if this is gonna answer you like completely clearly, but I feel like for, you know, running my own business and the mental capacity and energy for projects, like leading up to a photo shoot.

So I'll just quickly take you through like the branding experience, I guess you could say is, there's a lot of mental and energy put in before, and then there's a lot, obviously, on the day of, and there's a lot afterwards.

But that is only, if I'm looking at it correctly, it's probably maybe 15 hours of a work week if you wanna put it that way. So there's a lot of creative planning that goes into helping the client find their locations, helping them find their outfits, figuring out what kind of photos we're gonna do.

Why do they wanna do this photo? What is their clients gonna see, how they're gonna relate with this planning? So the planning is a lot of energy that a lot of people don't notice. They think that photographers, they just show up and they're like, okay, we're just taking photos and then call it done.

We go home and edit and then we're on to the next. But really, there's a lot of planning that leads up to it that not a lot of people see. And that's with any creative business owner. And then as far as working in retail, I do feel like my brain is always on. (laughs)

But it is, again, like Amy was saying, it's a different type of on. You're running across the store, you're trying to help people in this capacity, trying to help another employee with a task. So you're a lot more, it's all over, and there is a lot of energy being used.

So maybe I'm not the right person to answer that question because the retail job I do have is very creative based. So it's about similar to running my own business, obviously in a different capacity.

AMY: True.

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: But are you able to leave work at work?

MADALYN: Yeah, yes, yes. (both laughing) I say that, I'm like, maybe, but yes, for the most part, when I leave, when I'm done for the day at work, it's like, I don't think about it at home.

Or I'm not honestly allowed to think about it at home. Whereas like running your own business, when it's four o'clock and you're done for the day or whatever time you're done for the day, you're like, oh well, I had dinner so now I'm like ready to think about something else.

Like I wanna like dive back into this part of business. Like, and so your schedule is a little bit different because you can make it and yeah, it does take a little bit more energy to be like, no four o'clock, like do not open that laptop again. And so it is hard.

I think that's probably the big difference is you can leave work at work and also you're not responsible for the future of the company that you're working for. So you're not like mentally spending energy on that. Whereas that's what you're doing with your business constantly in the back of your head, whether it's at 8 AM or 9 PM, Like your brain is just kind of got this subconscious role of where are we going?

And how am I going to get there? And yeah, so that's, that's another big thing is you can't turn work off in the same way.

AMY: Yeah. It definitely, again, I think like it's just like someone, you feel like someone that's like watching you like Madalyn, you didn't finish that today.

Like, do you need to finish that today? Like, no, I can wait till tomorrow. But you know, it's just like, yeah, just trying to figure out that balance of not having to do everything in the same day or I think you had mentioned something about like some projects require some more energy and so like you could be down head down for four hours and that doesn't mean you didn't work for a full day.

It's just like those four hours were like where all your focus was. You put in as much energy in four hours as someone else would in a normal job. Especially when you don't have distractions, like four hours to working by yourself at home is way different than four hours working with an office of other people calling your names, phones ringing, whatnot.

So figuring out that is... And also you don't have any control over when a creative idea pops into your brain. You're like, "Oh, here we go." It's like, yeah, it could just pop into your brain randomly when you're on a weekend, when you're not even trying to work. 'Cause it's your business, it's your baby, it's all in your brain. So yeah, you just don't get the same kind of breaks.

And I think we can put disciplines into place of like, no, you're not opening that laptop. Or no, you're not gonna go on Instagram. So like there's ways to turn it off, but you never can completely.

MADALYN: Well, I've noticed like just in conversation with you, Amy, is that you do have your do not disturb mode on your phone. And it's usually like, if I message you after 5 p.m., I'll get the thing saying, "She has her notifications turned off." I was like, "Oh wow, she's so smart." Because like, she doesn't need to respond to someone after 5 p.m. or whatever the timing is.

And so just yeah, implementing those little things to help you close the laptop or turn off your business is really helpful.

AMY: It is really important.

MADALYN: Oh my gosh. I think that's why it's on there, but I don't know if maybe it's wrong.

AMY: Yes, I actually, that's an automatic setting. So it turns Do Not Disturb on at 5 p.m.

MADALYN: Mine's like at 9.30, so.

AMY: Yeah, yeah. And I often during the day will keep it on, Do Not Disturb, but I've even started putting it in the other room when I work so that I can focus. It's a game changer.

I feel like I had, I wanna do a whole episode about this and this topic is sprinkled throughout the whole first season. But just how my phone, it's so easy to let your phone control you. And so I've had to do a lot of things to take control back. So one of those is like not getting push notifications, not having a lot of work apps on my phone. And if I do absolutely no notifications, I choose when I go on it. It doesn't choose when it's bugging me.

And then I've also even gone so far as to replace TikTok. I was gonna say like recreational social media. Like I've replaced TikTok completely with reading. So just forcing myself to get off of the phone. So I'm literally not as addicted to it. It's crazy.

Another thing that we're kind of swirling around that I wanted to talk about is just this concept that as a business owner, even if it doesn't feel like work, everything that you're doing is work. Like every conversation, even if it's just like with a friend, but they're in your same realm, like that's a networking conversation that could lead to something down the road or a brainstorm session that you have that's even fun.

MADALYN: Yeah, we're allowed to have fun. I think, yeah, I wrote that down as like, we are allowed to have fun people. Just because we run our own business, or even if you are a corporate, you need to realize that you're allowed to live as a human and cater to your human needs and nourishing things in your life.

And so, yeah, every conversation, whether it's on the clock or off the clock, or whether it's with your boss or your coworker or your employee, like it still could be, it is considered work.

And that's one of the hardest things about running our own business and being a creative is because going out to lunch with someone, as long as, I mean, if we talk about work for 20 of those minutes, you never know like where that could lead. And so, yeah.

AMY: Exactly. And yeah, just all the things that you might not classify in your head as work really do become that. 'Cause like you said, you never know what it can turn into.

And this is a little bit different, but even rest is productive because you're not gonna be able to do your work well or be creative or be inspired if you're not also taking a break. And so that's not to think of your rest as work, but do think of it as like, this is all a piece of the bigger picture and it's all necessary.

And even like a productive walk that like can be a mental health self care thing is you could listen to a self-development or business audio book. That's work because who knows what those concepts are going to turn into down the line for you.

Doing coaching, doing mentorship, that's a form of work. It's just, yeah, we have to recognize that, you said it earlier and it might've been just when we were talking before this, but it doesn't have, work doesn't equal sitting down in front of your computer.

MADALYN: I literally was just going to say that. So like, yeah, just you don't have to always be sitting behind your computer, sitting at a desk on a conference call on a, you know, in a meeting in a in person meeting at work, like you don't have to always be on to for it to be like working in your business.

Cause you never know like where, yeah, like we've said many of times, but you just never know where a conversation can lead you. And like it can spur something on. Yeah. And so I've definitely seen that play in my role as an entrepreneur. So I'm sure Amy can say the same thing.

AMY: Absolutely.

MADALYN: It's very important to notice that just because you're not doing what your title is, doesn't mean you're not working.

AMY: Yes. And also I wanna talk about the taking care of yourself piece of it is, it's just, it's not about, this is preaching to myself. It's not about the hours put in.

MADALYN: Yeah, it's not about the hours. And like, I think that, you know, one of the most like beautiful things about owning your own business, being an entrepreneur, is that you can make your schedule.

And like we've mentioned, but like you can make it so that you finish your day at a certain time so that you can pour into lives of people in your circle, your own lives, like taking care of yourself, like figuring out a time to go on to your workout class, like figuring out a time to meal prep, whatever it is that pours into you to make you stronger is very important to implement because it will show up like in your business.

AMY: Yeah, you are your business. You're way more responsible for taking care of how you show up than just somebody in a corporate job who just, you know, has, they have their to-do list. That's, I don't wanna minimize a corporate job, But it's just different because you're determining the direction of where you wanna go and it's--

MADALYN: You're not always reporting to someone else either. Like working in corporate or working in retail or a restaurant, service industry is like, most of the time, unless you own the business, like you're reporting to a boss and being like, okay, at the end of the day, I did all of this.

Like, is that, you know, am I allowed to move forward or whatever it might be? And so like when you have your own business, you don't have that person to talk to but you still need to like, you know.

AMY: You're responsible to yourself.

MADALYN: Yeah, yeah. You gotta keep yourself responsible but also allow yourself to have fun and you know, take care of you. 'Cause at the end of the day, if you're not feeling good, then it's not gonna play out well in your business for that day.

AMY: I will share an example of this. When Luke came on the business, we decided that we would start doing dog sitting as a side hustle because I was like, okay, we're both here. We can be wherever we want to be.

As long as we have wifi, why don't we just like make some extra money on the side? Great. And so we did it for probably five months. And I started to realize that this is a me problem, but every time we would dog sit, I would struggle to sleep. Cause I just, I just struggled to sleep in new contexts.

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: And so it was like almost always the first night anywhere. I wouldn't sleep well. And then it happened one time with another job that like the second night I couldn't sleep till like 3 a.m. 'Cause my allergies were hitting.

And I was just like, this has got to end. And I started thinking about it and I was like, we're losing money in our business because of how unproductive I'm being because I can't sleep. And if we were to take away the weight. (both laughing)

MADALYN: You're like, do I need some sleep right now? (both laughing)

AMY: I feel like maybe by adding in a side job, because you're like, well, we have so much time and actually made you realize that it's taking away from you because your energy is that.

MADALYN: Yeah, yes, exactly.

AMY: Like I wasn't able to be as productive in the business and it was at the cost of the dog sitting. So I basically just waited and I was like, well, I can make way more in my business if my brain is functioning on all cylinders, than I would from this finite dog sitting job. So I just made this decision at that point.

I was like, “sorry, Luke, I gotta, can we stop?” And he was fine, he can sleep anywhere. So he was fine. He didn't really care, but he was totally supportive and totally understood. And that's happened with a couple other things that I've just, I've had to cut out of my schedule, not because I didn't enjoy them, not because they weren't meaningful, but just because they were detracting from my ability to focus.

MADALYN: Yeah. And I mean, yeah, I think that's a good way to realize you're nourishing what you need and what it takes to put in your business, but also like nourishing, having a personal life and having a business is, yeah. I mean, I said this earlier, but like we are allowed to do things that bring us joy.

And like, we're allowed to go out with our friends or we're allowed to take the morning off to go get coffee with, you know, family that's in town. Like we have to, that's one of the great things about, like, you know, owning your own business and having your schedule is like, you can take that morning off, but realize that the afternoon is going to be just as a productive because you were able to take that moment.

AMY: Another kind of concept that's coming up as we're talking about this is just that you get to define your own success. You get to define what means successful to you. And so if you are making what you want to be making and achieving what you want to be achieving on the amount of time that you're working, who's to say?

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: Who's to judge that?

MADALYN: Right.

AMY: You know? And of course we need people in our lives, like coaches or whatever, to push us. Like if we want to be bigger and better, we need people to challenge us and there might be seasons of doing more. But like you get to decide what your priorities are, what's important to you in your life. And cater your schedule to that.

MADALYN: Yeah, exactly, yeah.

AMY: I think where I'm at personally right now with all of this is I'm trying to get rid of the last bit of guilt that I'm holding onto. Because I realize in my head, I'm like, I have built this. I started this from nothing two years ago and it's paying all of our bills right now. Like that's wild.

MADALYN: And that's a testimony to me.

AMY: And it's only because of the Lord. So I'm really not, like it's not me, it's him. But it's like, wow, that happened. That's our reality. Our reality is Luke works full time with us and we can go anywhere and do anything anytime we want. That's wild.

And these are things that I dreamed of for years of just being able to like drop and like go on a walk in the middle of the day together or leave on a weekend trip whenever we want because we don't have to wait till 5 p.m. on a Friday.

MADALYN: Or getting approval from X, Y, Z.

AMY: Or answer to anybody. I think that's probably the biggest thing is not answering to anybody else, which might be an issue. Like you might have an idea at 1 p.m. and at 1 15 you are in the car and you are on your way because you don't have to.

MADALYN: And I, I think I get in the way of myself enjoying it because I still have that last little shred of guilt of the societal norm of like what are people going to think of me like or what are they going to think of my business if they realize that “Oh, Madalyn took off Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Like, is she not showing up in her business?” Or like, is she not, like, is she having a hard time? Like, is she not paying bills? So she just needs to get away and like blow off some steam?” Or is like, is that just how she runs her schedule? And that's usually the answer. It's like, well, if I want to do that, then I can.

Or from like that and this overwhelming, what I should be doing. 'Cause I just function on just like a, just super ambiguous should. It's very, it's like a ghost that hovers over you with a should ghost.

AMY: Yeah, the should ghost, I like that.

MADALYN: Let's just make a new thing for it. But yeah, definitely just letting go of that. When people ask you, when you're hanging out with friends that work in retail or corporate, whatever it might be, and you're like, how was your day? And they tell you, and they're like, well, and then they ask you, you're like, just be proud.

Be proud of what you did and what you accomplished in the day, even if it is something as small as answering your emails or, which is not small. That's a huge task. So I shouldn't build all that at all, but just like don't downplay what you did do in your job, whether it's, yeah, yeah.

'Cause again, like Amy said, they built a business in two years and it's paying all of their bills. And like, that's not something that we should take lightly, but also like be proud and be really happy for how far you've come. And don't worry about what other, it's easier said than done, but don't worry about what other people think about what it is you're doing.

So I'm just working on getting to the point where I do fully appreciate and enjoy what we have been able to build.

I'm getting there. We're a lot closer than we were.

AMY: Yes. Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think really quickly about the whole, not always, like some seasons are gonna be heavier for business than others. I do think that me personally, like the past few months have been slower in my business, which has allowed me to really tap into my passion project, the portraits of her and that's going to impact me or like other people, but myself as well.

And that's part of the brand and the business that I wouldn't have been able to work on if I was hustling every month, the past few months. So just allowing for that to happen. And while it was happening, I feel like I was still growing my business for when the season is in a different time.

MADALYN: Absolutely, you're doing other things under the radar that are still growing your business, even though it's not as outward.

AMY: Yeah, under the radar. There's lots of things of owning a business that are under the radar that nobody realizes. And they're like, "Oh, you do that?" Yes, we did that.

MADALYN: Yeah, all the thought that you put into your offers, people just see your offers and they're like, "Okay, cool, awesome." But there's so much thought, brainstorming, agonizing over pricing, building out a proposal that you can put on your website or that you can send an email. There's so much that goes into it that people don't see.

AMY: I do think you make a really good point though that entrepreneur life ebbs and flows a lot and that's a big piece of it and other jobs might be more consistent and you can make your choice what you need in life.

But yeah, there are really busy, really heavy, maybe seasons where you're working 60, 70 hours a week And then there's going to be some where you can work 20. Like it's, that's just how it is.

I've had to come to accept that it's just, it's normal for it to be up and down.

MADALYN: It's normal and it's hard to accept it. I think it, yeah, it's hard to understand that, okay Madalyn, like you worked 60 hours last week. Like you're okay. It's okay if you take, you know, four days, like just work 20 hours on your business this week. Like you're still doing just the same amount. It's just a shorter amount of time.

And like just realizing that, yeah.

AMY: Life is life. Back to the taking care of yourself. Like you're allowed to leave space for yourself to rest from something that was super exhausting, even when that space is time that you quote unquote should be working as society says.

MADALYN: And if it's something that like society is getting to you as far as like you are taking off more time or you are allowing yourself to work less because you don't need to work 40 hours a week. You don't have to share, like you don't have to be on all the time. And I think that's something, I mean, I enjoy it so I don't mind it, but I feel like there's a lot of business owners that feel like they have to be on all the time, especially if they're active on Instagram.

Like you don't have to share every moment of your life for people to know. Like you can still be working only 20 hours a week, but you don't have to tell people that. (laughing)

It's like, you know, it's like one of those things of like, yeah, they're not gonna know unless they like are in your presence or you generally talk to them every day. Like it's not something to be like, hey, it's Monday and I'm only working Monday and Tuesday this week. Unless you want to share that, why you're not gonna be working the rest of the week or whatever.

But just realizing that you don't have to share every moment of your business with everybody.

AMY: That's a good point. That kind of brings me to an application point, which is hilarious, I feel like I'm preaching a sermon. It's like the end of the sermon.

MADALYN: Here we are.

AMY: And now this is how you're gonna apply it to your life. But like one like just big action step that I'm thinking about that's overarching to all of this is determine what's right for you and what your definition of success is, what you want your life and your days to look like, like figure out what you want and then be confident in it.

I think that's the other piece is once you've determined it, either be confident enough to say, I don't have to tell you, like confident enough to like keep it private and like just decide where you're gonna draw your boundary and do it or confident enough to when people do challenge, you say, well, this is how I do things and this is why and this works for me and just like leaving it there.

MADALYN: Leaving it there.

And don't be like, yeah, I could do that, but like, you know, but no, just drawing the line and saying, this is how I do it and it works for me. And so be it.

AMY: Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any other final thoughts before we close up?

MADALYN: Yeah, that covers everything. I mean, I think these are all points that we could talk on and on about. So it's not, we just wanted to touch the surface and get your brains like rolling. And obviously, yeah, I think that's just, it's just a really important thing to realize that we don't have to work 40 hours a week.

AMY: We don't.

MADALYN: We don't.

AMY: And we can be confident.

MADALYN: Yeah, we can be confident and just realize that everything we do, whether it's a conversation or it's an email, it is equal when you are running your own business. It's all pushing you forward. And that's what's important.

AMY: Sweet, I love it. This has been awesome. And before we go, I want to hear from you, Madalyn, because this is the Peaceful Entrepreneur podcast after all, and you are a peaceful entrepreneur. (both laughing)

So what is bringing you peace right now?

MADALYN: I feel like over the past like few months, I've really grasped the conversation. The idea of just taking it day by day. Like that's huge. I know we need to look for the future and like figure out where you're gonna be in five years. I honestly do not like the question of what's your five year plan? 'cause I want to like really embrace what it's like right now on this Thursday afternoon.

Like I don't wanna think about what's happening tomorrow or what happened yesterday, how I could fix whatever happened yesterday, but I wanna be living in the moment right now. And so, yeah, that's just taking that into every day. It's just like, okay, this is Thursday and Thursday's gonna be the best Thursday it can be. And here we are.

AMY: That's amazing.

MADALYN: I think, and then also just like conversations, just like this, like it's just bringing me, you know, peace and refreshing energy. And so just allowing those to happen in life.

AMY: I love that. That's such a big point of taking it day by day. And I think that's one of the things that I struggle most with in life is being present.

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: Because I'm always looking toward the future 'cause I'm an idealist. So I'm like, how can I make everything as perfect as possible? is good and bad. And so I am trying to practice that too, but I'm glad that you brought it up 'cause it kind of reinstates, 'cause it's like, I have goals, but I just gotta be faithful every day if I'm gonna get anywhere.

Yeah, so they'll get there when they need to be. It's also not relying on your own timeline. And in the end, the Lord is the one that's gonna provide that for you and it will happen in time, whether it's something you want it to happen tomorrow or you want it to happen in three years, but like, it'll get there when it gets there.

And so, that's a huge piece is putting that trust in the Lord that his plan is gonna be better than mine. This is something that I heard at a conference recently and it's exactly what we're talking about. And it's such a mind switch, but Sadie Robertson Huff said, "My expectations of God are not always the promises of God."

So what you want is not always in God’s plan, but the beautiful part is his promises are so much greater than our expectations. So just keeping it in mind of like, we have dreams, we have goals, and God wants good things for us.

He wants the best for us, and he knows so much more than us. So he's actually going to orchestrate it to be, if it's not how we envision it, it's going to be way better than we ever envisioned it.

MADALYN: I love that.

AMY: Sermon complete. (laughing)

Well, thank you Madalyn. This has been so fun.

MADALYN: Thank you for having me.

AMY: Yes.

MADALYN: My first ever podcast episode. So here we are.

AMY: Here we are.

MADALYN: Loved it.

AMY: And I can't wait to continue the conversation over on Instagram. We want to hear everybody. We want to hear your thoughts. We want to know if anything was controversial, if you disagree, feel free to tell us.

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: Or tell us what--

MADALYN: We may or may not respond, you know? (laughing) I'm just kidding. We'll speak to it, but you know.

AMY: Or just share like what stuck out to you, what you have never thought about before, what was particularly encouraging in the season.

MADALYN: Yeah.

AMY: All right, we'll see you next time.

MADALYN: Bye.

AMY: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We look forward to connecting with you more, whether that's on Instagram, TikTok, or our email list.

We'd love to hear what you thought of today's episode, and if you have any additional tips to add. We will see you next week with more tips and tools to becoming a peaceful entrepreneur.

Bye for now.